Welcome, and thank you for expressing an interest in applying to Sol Invictus.
The following is a description of how Loot works in Sol Invictus.
There are TWO primary parts to our Loot System. First there is Normal Loot (NL), and then there are Wish List Loots (WLL). Let's go over them plus the
other categories one at a time.
Note that both hours and loots follow a rolling 18 month period; i.e., after 18 months both old loots and hours drop from the equation used to determine Normal
Loot Eval.
Normal
Loot
When Normal loot is being handled, we refer to what we call the Eval Score.
The Eval Score is basically just a Rating system to tell the Officers where you are in line to Recieve a loot.
Eval score is given by a very simple equation:
NL Eval = (total raid hours)/(total Whole Normal Loots + 1).
Where the (+1) is there to prevent a zero divisor. Eg. Bob has 100 raid hours and 0 loots, Bob's eval score is 100 (a very high score). Sally has 300 raid
hours and 5 whole normal loots, Sally's eval is (300)/(5+1) = 50.
The term "Whole Normal Loots" = Loot worth a rating of 1.0 in our Eval Score calculation. We use this distinction because not all loots are rated at
1.0... loots from older content are often rated at lower amounts, like 0.5 or 0.25, while some items do eventually go to /random (0 Normal Loot Rating) This is
so that people will not pass on older upgrades that they NEED just to get the best, greatest loots. You see, we'd rather have people take what upgrades
they can get and be STRONGER guild members then pass on loots in the hopes of only getting the most Uber stuff
A Whole Normal Loot can be a single loot with value of 1, or two with a value of .5, etc.
NOTE: One big difference between our system and a DKP system is relatively new people will never be competitive on highly desired loots in a DKP system; in our
system relatively new people can be very competitive on highly desired loots.
Our loot process has the some similarities to a DKP system in that it is based on the amount of raid hours someone attends and how many items they have
previously looted. However, it differs in ways that are specifically designed to PREVENT the following manipulations, abuses, and issues, common in DKP
systems:
NONE of the following can happen under our system:
1) Member x has a lot of dkp then decides to call it quits for the most part, and only shows up when the guild is hitting the uber
droppers. If the minimum attendance is 40% or 50%, you could have someone who is 50% for a year getting priority over someone who is 100% due to bidding. Thats
one place our discretion comes in.
2) Unscrupulous CL or Officer knows how much people bid. They know how much DKP someone has. They know how bad someone wants the item. They can either a) If they also want the item, bid whatever other person bids +1, since they know the number, or b) if they dont want the item but know other person wants it bad, they bid it up to waste that other person's dkp.
3) Bob wants item Y REAL bad. Due to others wanting the item bad, or due to (2) above, Bob ends up spending
all his DKP on the ONE item and as a result is insufficiently geared for the guild's needs since he can't buy other items.
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In a DKP system, DKP is like money. If you save DKP, you would have a big bank account, if you spent all your DKP, you would be essentially broke. Sol
Invictus' system is different.
Your Eval Score is more like a Credit Rating. Since it is just a Scoring system, you can NOT go Negative on your Eval. Just as you can run up your credit card,
if you have the opportunity to loot 1 bazillion items, you can... just don't expect to be First in line for any loots that anyone else wants before you.
When you have a Credit Rating, the Rating agency looks at a number of factors... it looks at your income, your total bank account, as well as your Ratio of
Income/Assets to Debt.
In the case of your Eval Score, the system looks at your Average Loot Rate (ALR).
Here's a couple examples,
Example 1
Jack and Dave both want the Breastplate of Uberness.
Jack has Raided for 100 hours and over that time he has taken 3 loots.
Eval Score = 100 / (3 + 1) = 25
Dave has Raided for 100 hours, and over that time he has taken 4 loots.
Eval Score = 100 / (4 + 1) = 20
In this case, Jack and Dave have raided the same number of hours, but because Dave has taken MORE loots per hour than Jack, Jack would win.
Example 2
Steve and Mark both want the Shield of Not-quite so Gimpness
Steve has Raided for 1000 hours and has taken 49 loots.
Eval Score = 1000 / (49 + 1) = 20
Mark has Raided for 100 hours and has taken 4 loots.
Eval Score = 100 / (4 + 1) = 25
In this case, even though Steve has raided far more hours, however because he has taken MORE loots per hour than Mark, Mark would win.
Essentially, what your Eval Score does, is it keeps track of how many Hours you raid between looting, and the person who Raids MORE hours between taking loots
is the person who will have the Highest Eval score. In other words, if you Raid alot of hours with few loots, it's like you're passing on Loots in a
group. Since you have contributed as much per loot as everyone else, the group OWES you loots. If you take Alot of loots versus your Raid Hours, then it's
like you're in a group and have taken some of your loots In Advance... IE, you OWE hours to the group.
There are a couple things that happen when you use a Eval Score versus a DKP system.
If you're a new player, because you have LESS raid hours than regular guild members, your Eval Score Rises AND Falls faster than regular members.
Dave has raided 100 hours but has never taken a Loot.
Eval Score = 100/(0+1) = 100
After Dave loots his first Loot...
Eval Score = 100/(1+1) = 50
Steve has raided 1000 hours but has taken 24 Whole Normal Loots.
Eval Score = 1000/(24+1) = 40
After Steve takes his 25th loot....
Eval Score = 1000/(25+1) = 38.46
In this Scenario, even though Steve has been with the guild Longer, Dave CAN get a shot at a loot VERY quickly (40+ hours), but AFTER he takes that loot, he
will then no longer be competitive on a loot against Steve until he rebuilds his Eval Score (in this case, another 40 hours of raiding). This gives Newer
members an opportunity to get Upgrades so that they are Useful to the guild.
Meanwhile, Steve who is a long-time member, even though he will LOSE against Dave on the first loot, for the next 40 hours until Dave rebuilds his Eval Score,
he will be Next in line on Loots. This rewards Long-time members in that they are more competitive on Loots for a longer period than Dave (IE will win more
loots).
Let's take the following example,
Person A is a veteran, has 1000 raiding hours and has taken 39 Whole Normal Loots. Their current Eval Score is
25.
Person B has is a new member and has 0 raiding hours and has taken 0 Normal Loots.
So let's consider the following scenario....
Person A (Vet) raids 30 hours. They now have 1030 hours. Their Eval Score rises to 25.75.
Person B (New) raids 30 hours. They now have 30 hours. Their Eval Score rises to 30.
Now a piece of loot drops. Person B has higher Eval Score and has first consideration on an item. The veteran
loses on the loot.
Seems unfair? However, what we need to consider is what happens over time. We'll start from where we left off with 2 scenarios...
Scenario A - Nobody attempts to purchase an item
Raid hours ..... 30 ..... 40 ..... 50 ..... 60 ..... 70 ..... 80 ..... 90 ..... 100 ..... 110 ..... 120 ..... 130 ..... 140 ..... 150 ..... 160 ..... 170 ..... 180
Vet Hours .....1030 .. 1040 . 1050 . 1060 . 1070.. 1080. 1090 ... 1100 ... 1110 ... 1120 ... 1130 ... 1140 ...
1150 ... 1160 ... 1170 ... 1180
Vet Eval .......27.75 . 26.00 . 26.25. 26.50. 26.75. 27.00. 27.25 . 28.00 .. 28.25 .. 28.50 .. 28.75 .. 29.00 .. 29.25 .. 29.50 .. 30.00 .. 30.25
New Hours ....30 ..... 40 .... 50 ...... 60 ..... 70 ..... 80 ..... 90 ..... 100 ..... 110 ...... 120 .....
130 ..... 140 ..... 150 ..... 160 ..... 170 ..... 180
New Eval .......30 ..... 40 .... 50 ...... 60 ..... 70 ..... 80 ..... 90 ..... 100 ..... 110 ...... 120 ..... 130 ..... 140 ..... 150 ..... 160 ..... 170 .....
180
Scenario B - Both people attempt to spend 1.0 eval every 10 hours (and Whole Normal Loots are applied) - we'll give Ties to the New player
to simplify the math
Raid hours ..... 30 ..... 40 ..... 50 ..... 60 ..... 70 ..... 80 ..... 90 ..... 100 ..... 110 ..... 120 ..... 130 ..... 140 ..... 150 ..... 160 ..... 170 ..... 180
Vet Hours ....1030 .. 1040 . 1050 . 1060 . 1070.. 1080. 1090 ... 1100 ... 1110 ... 1120 .... 1130 ... 1140 ...
1150 ... 1160 ... 1170 ... 1180
Vet Eval .......27.75 . 26.00 . 25.61. 25.23 25.46 .25.11 24.77 25.00(T). 25.23 .. 24.88 ... 24.56 .. 24.78 .. 24.47 .. 24.68 .. 24.37 .. 24.08
Vet Result ..... L ....... W ...... W ......... L ...... W ...... L ...... W ..... L .......... W ........ W
....... L ......... W .......... L .......... W ........ W ......... L
New Hours ...30 ..... 40 ...... 50 ...... 60 ..... 70 ..... 80 ..... 90 .... 100 ..... 110 ...... 120 ..... 130 ..... 140 ..... 150 ..... 160 ..... 170 .....
180
New Eval ....30.00 . 20.00. 25.00 . 30.00 23.33 26.66 . 22.50 25.00(T) 22.00 ... 24.00 .. 26.00 .. 23.33 .. 25.00 .. 22.85 .. 24.28 .. 25.71
New Result .... W ...... L ...... L ........ W ........ L ...... W ...... L ...... W ........ L ........... L ........ W ........ L ........ W .......... L ........ L ......... W
Notice a couple things...
1) The New Member starting from the same eval point gets loot Sooner.
2) Despite the New Member winning the first loot sooner (eval going up faster), given the same number of drops and faster loot rate than normal, the Veteran
player's eval fluctuates less putting them in the position to win More loots over time (9/16 + 1 tie vs. 6/16 + 1 tie) even when you give the New Member
the benefit of Ties.
Sol Invictus' loot system is designed to accomplish a few things...
a) Gear up new members quickly so that they can contribute to Guild Progression effectively (Fast moving Eval
and Reduced Whole Loot values on Older Loot)
b) Reward Long-time member by giving them MORE shots at loot over time (Eval moving more slowly up AND down).
c) Show us when people are looting More OR Less than their share (More or less loots per hour Raided).
Now, while the Eval Score is the Main factor in the loot process, it is NOT the only factor. For the vast majority of decisions, your Eval Score is the
primary determinant of Who wins loot.
Under the following situations Eval Score will NOT be the only factor.
1) CLASS ITEMS: Class items are items that are restricted to a single class or type; i.e SK/Pal, War, Monk/BL, etc. Some items not restricted by SoE
may still be considered class items. That doesn't mean no other class can ever get them, but they will go to the class for which they are considered class
items first. At the present time, that includes the following: Endgame weapons with an agro proc will be considered warrior class items. Endgame weapons with a
backstab mod will be considered rogue class items, endgame singing mod items will be considered bard class items. Let's be honest, certain items are
critical items for certain classes. Aggro weapons go to Tanks FIRST. Piercers go to Rogues. Etc, etc. If an item has Hate, Chaotic Strike, or +% backstab, then
it is probably restricted. If you're not sure, ask your Class Leader for clarification on the status of the item. Since certain classes are given priority
on weapons that greatly benefit them (agro procs, backstab mods) the other dps or tanking classes are given priority on items without those effects. If you are
a warrior, expect to get the endgame agro proc weapon over a ranger; but expect the ranger to get the endgame 1H Dps weapon over you.
Note that class items are handled by the Class Leader for the class directly, and can be awarded based on any decision criteria that make sense, i.e.
eval/attend, or need, etc. Eg. Warrior_01 has high eval and already sports an endgame agro weapon in primary and a T3 agro weapon in secondary, Warrior_02 has
lower eval but has group level agro weapons…the CL may award the agro weapon to warrior 2 based on need. Eg. Warrior 01 has pretty armor colors, Warrior02
looks like a Froglok blew chunks on them. CL cannot award the weapon to warrior 1 based on silly criteria like pretty armor, the criteria must be reasonable
and sensible. Talk to your CL to find out which criteria they use.
Since these items are severely restricted in their use, there is NO Normal Loot cost attributed to these items. We would rather see a person get
that upgrade FREE than see them rot.
2) We understand that a Primary Focus has a BIG impact in terms of benefit for certain classes and the guild at large. Healing focus, damage focus, cleave,
ferocity, etc. When there is a class specific focus, the Officers will take that into consideration. The amount that this counts will depend upon whether the
person has a focus already or not, how large the upgrade for focus would be, etc, etc. In NO case will a class Focus count for More than 10 points in terms of
an Eval Score adjustment.
3) The expected Raid Attendance minimum for active Raiding Members is 40%. If you are UNDER 50% attendance, then this can affect loot calls. If you are at 47%
attendance and another person is at 90%, then expect that you MAY lose the loot even IF you have a higher Eval Score. Whether you still win or not will depend
on how far under 50% you are, how much higher your Eval Score is than the other people, as well as the level of the upgrade for each of the people involved.
There isn't really a hard and fast ratio for this, it will be up to Officer Discretion. Keep your attendance at 50% or above, and this won't be an
issue.
If you are UNDER 40% attendance, then regardless of your Eval Score, you will ONLY be eligible for loot if NO FULL Members above 40% attendance are
interested in the loot. Essentially, if you drop under 40% attendance, then you will be competing with Trial Members for Loot. To be quite blunt, that great
piece of loot only benefits the Guild if you're on-line and USING it on Raids. How do you avoid this? Show up for at least 5/12 raids per month.
4) The 2 people with highest eval scores for a given loot are extremely close (IE, within 2 points of each other). In this case, Officers will also consider
other factors including but not limited to Raid Attendance, Level of Upgrade, whether it has a class beneficial focus/effect, and when was the last time they
got a loot.
5) Primary/Secondary Slots
Each member of Sol Invictus MUST spend 2.0 Whole Loots (NL or WL) on their Primary/secondary slot items. After the initial 2.0 Whole Loots are attributed, ALL
Primary/Secondary upgrades are FREE. Weapons are one of the core components of a Guild's DPS, as such, we want NO excuses for people to NOT upgrade their
weapons as content permits to further guild progression. To make it fair across all classes, this ALSO applies to caster classes.
Additionally, as Primary/Secondary after the first two are FREE, level of upgrade will be a Significant factor in the distribution of these items. As a guild,
we Try to get a good weapon into the hands of EVERYONE. Even if you have Higher Eval, don't be Surprised if you don't win the weapon of your choice if
you are wielding the Sword of Almost_but_not_quite_uber and it goes to a person using the Blade of My_god_this_really_sucks.
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RUNES:
Runes are distributed generally on a Rotating Class Basis. Master lists are kept for each type of Rune by Class, as well as when those classes looted a
particular rune. The relevant CL's are then informed that their Class is up for a rune. Rune distribution is to be handled by the CL of each class in the
way they feel is most beneficial to the guild. In some cases, this may be rotating by member, in other cases it may be multiple runes to One person until a
specific spell (like Symbol, Haste or Clarity) is received. Speak to your Class Leader for more details of how Runes will be handled in your class.
Under specific circumstances, such as when an expansion is New, the Officers will set aside the Master List system temporarily to make sure that we have at
least 1 or 2 individuals able to cast Raid Critical spells like Buffs on the raid. In those cases, the Runes will usually be assigned to an individual, with
Raid Attendance taken heavily into account.
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Trash Mob Drops
In the case of Usable trash drops, like Augments, group armor, essences, etc, those items will usually be /randomed. If the drop is a spell/disc,
it will be handled by the appropriate class leader.
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WISH LIST ITEMS:
Wish List Items are our method of offering a way to obtain highly desired items without "holding out" and passing on upgrades the guild really needs
the person to have so as to not lower their eval for that item they "REALLY want", i.e. hoarding NL eval to the detriment of the guild and the
individual. This is similar to the "bidding" done in DKP, but note however that it does NOT affect NL eval or NL calls for that person as they do not
have to "spend" all (or even any)their NL eval to obtain these items.
An easy way to think about a WL is that it is like Taunt... For the purposes of that WL Item, your Eval effectively becomes the Top Competitive Eval Score +
20.
WLs get priority OVER NLs for an item IF the following are true
1) It is NOT a Class Restricted item.
2) They have an available WL slot to spend
2) They have the attendance required (currently 40% attend for the last 60 days)
3) They are present at the raid (or in sitout).
As you complete a set number of hours of raid time (currently 150) you will be awarded a Wish List slot. WLs are also awarded on the anniversaries of
someone's being in SI, assuming they are not retired, on break, or otherwise unavailable during that year. On your User Page on the website you can enter
any item currently on our loot lists as a WL item. Members may have up to five items on their WL at any given time, but the number of slots earned is based on
number of hours & years and guild, and reduced for WL items previously awarded.
What this means is that if/when that item drops anyone with the item on their WL is immediately bumped to the top of the list for receiving that item.
If more than one person has an item WL'ed the Main determining factor is the date they last received a WL item. The reason this is the main factor, is so
that EVERYONE gets a fair shot at a WL item and to prevent long-time members with many WL's from monopolizing all the premium/rare gear.
If the number of days since last WL used is Close, then other factors like raid attendance, focus effect vis a vis class and focuses in use already will be
taken into consideration.
Once you receive an item from your WL, remove it from your WL so we can keep the records clear. As well, if an item is no longer of interest to you as a WL
item, remove it from your WL as soon as that decision is made. If you accidentally add the wrong item to your WL, post in the Administrative section of the
messageboard with your name and the item and we can remove it. It may not happen immediately, but it is the member's responsibility to make sure they are
updating their information correctly.
The officers will post on the Guild Forums which item name to use if item names are unclear or if it appears that an item appears under multiple database
entries. If you are unsure which item name to use, contact your Class Leader or an Officer. Make sure that you are using the correct item names for WL's
and the chance of being missed on a WL is greatly reduced.
Remember to Make SURE that if you have an Item WL'd, that you inform your CL or an Officer that you have that item on WL. While the officers do their best
to check for WL's, we aren't perfect. The database we use sometimes isn't available, and when newer loots are added to the database, sometimes they
are covered under multiple or incorrect loot names and missed. An item must be on your WL for 24 hours in order for you to be considered for it. This is to
prevent people from adding items to their WL as they drop. Doing this is a big NO-NO.
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So, you're now tagged in SI. We've killed that Uber mob and there's loot to be had. Here's what you'll see...
1 - Drops from the event are called.
2 - An officer calls for Class Leader tells on each piece of loot.
3 - For official loot, members send tells to their Class Leader if they are interested in a piece of loot. If the CL isn't present, tells for that class go directly to the officer taking names for that loot.
4 - Class leader filters Eval Scores and attendance for their class, then sends tell to the appropriate officer as to who from their class is interested in the item and most qualified for it.
5 - One or more Officers check Eval Scores and raid attendance for all interested members and reports to the other officers. Any Wish Lists are checked for the item (see below)
6 - A determination is made based on eval and attendance, or any existing Wish Lists for the item from players present and able to use one. The Officers then VOTE on who they believe the loot should be awarded to, and the Majority decision wins. This is usually strictly a formality as in most cases, awards are strictly by NL Eval score. This may not be based purely upon the Eval Score in certain cases noted above.
7 - Loot is awarded. /happydance
In Depth Process
1 - On raids only officers should be checking corpses on anything other than trash mobs. Loot will be called in guild chat by an officer. Guild members often
will be given loot rights in order to clear corpses out of the way, to acquire tradeskill drops for use by the guild, or even so that certain items like Banes
may be looted during an event.
2 - Officer will call for tells from Class Leaders for specific items. If you do not have a CL present tell the officer directly with the note "No CL present." If you do have a CL present, /tell them you are interested in a particular item.
3 - Class Leaders make their determination as to who among their class will be submitted to the officers for final award. This is at the discretion for the CL to determine their choice for submission. It is almost always based on normal eval rules and attendance, but occasionally may be based on greater need, or whatever other factor they determine as most important. Check with your CL for exact details. When not using eval/attendance as the criteria, CLs should be clear with the class as to why and what criteria is used. On occasion, a CL may submit more than one person from their class.
4 - Once an officer has the list of names from the CLs they check the eval and raid attendance for all interested parties, and any Wish Lists for the item, and report that information to the other officers.
5 - Officers discuss and/or evaluate the options and make a final determination. In most cases this is based
strictly on eval and attendance. As noted above, officer discretion is used in the case of close calls and they will also take into account focuses, size of
upgrade, lifetime raid hours, lifetime attendance, etc.
6 - Looter's name and item is announced in guild chat (or raid chat).
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Transparency
Sol Invictus fully believes that Every Guild Member is Fully Entitled to make sure that the Guild's interests are being served.
Every Guild Member has the right to know their Eval Score, and see their Attendance and Loot histories. These
are available through the guild Website. If a member is unable to access their information on the guild website, they may request that information from an
Officer or their Class Leader.
Any Guild Member who is NOT competing for a Loot on an event may request that they be invited to the
Loot Channel. This restriction is in place to make sure that observing the loot calls does not give a member an unfair advantage over other members of the
Guild.
Any Guild Member who wishes to observe the Loot Process in action need only send a tell to an Officer or their CL, and they will be invited to the Loot Channel
to observe.
When you are invited to the Loot Channel, please observe the following etiquette...
1) Please keep chatter to a minimum. The officers are usually handling a number of things at once. This not only includes Loot Co-ordination, but Raid
Co-ordination, target selection, Raid administration, database searches, tells, etc, etc.
2) Do NOT make comments or observations regarding any Loot that is being discussed or awarded in Channel.
3) You are NOT to reveal to anyone being considered for loot what other guild members were being considered for those loots, or any other information that would give them a bidding advantage on a particular item versus another guild member.
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Whole Loot Values
Loots are typically broken up into 3 categories for cost.
Unoffical/Free - 0 cost. This is typically used for older content and/or aug drops under a certain threshold. Currently, most augs that are
under +120 to HP/Mana/End with an additional effect are unofficial, as well as most augs that are under +170 HP/Mana/End. NOTE: These numbers are not 100%
unchangeable, determinations of worth will be made and justified on the fly based on content. Most unofficial drops will be awarded through a /random process.
We may ask that people link the item they will be upgrading before rolling to give others an idea as to who may benefit the most from it.
NOTE: This is designed so that people will use discretion and not roll on upgrades that are small for them but very good for other members.
Official/0.25 - 0.50 cost - Older content that isn't quite outdated yet. Currently this is typically applied to items that have between 700
and 800 HP on them. There are instances where some items will not have that particular stat but will still cost 0.25 - .50. Usually this is because it has
another equally beneficial stat. These items will be handled as official loot.
Official/1.0 cost - Standard loot. Applied to all current Top End Current raid content.
Tracking Raid Attendance
Full instructions and the download for the tracking application are available here:
www.solinvictus.org/eq/attendinstr.asp
It is strongly advised that you track your own attendance. While officers make the effort to make sure everyone's time gets tracked correctly, in the end
it is each member's responsibility to track their own time.
